Crappy CDs Part Deux
Posted in Storage Applications, Advisor - Tom by Tom TreadwayQuestion to the Storage Advisors, from Ned Hune: In the late 90’s there was a firestorm of controversy surrounding the lifespan of CDs (to which Tom recently alluded). Is there a definitive answer? Is it safe to use CD-Rs as a permanent archive?
I was surprised to get so much mail on the topic of CD lifespan. My original post was mostly a summarization of an interview with Kurt Gerecke of IBM/Germany. Since then I’ve had several mails, such as the one above from Ned Hune, questioning whether CD-R lifespans were still as poor as originally reported, how DVDs were affected, etc.
So I did a little additional research hoping to find a definitely answer. Unfortunately I came up dry. I did find lots of “facts” about CDs that I suppose, to a person smarter than I, would add up to a real answer. Many of these facts seem to be repeated verbatim on various blogs and message boards, and I tried to therefore to take those facts with a grain of salt. It was very difficult to find original and unique content, but I did run across the Optical Storage Technology Association website. Honestly, I couldn’t discern whether this was a legit organization, or just a group of vendors trying to sell more CD media, but they did seem to have a lot of genuine and useful information.
Also, regarding DVDs, it seems that all the information I found regarding CDs also applies to DVDs. DVD-Rs haven’t been shipping long enough to start noticing multi-year trends in reliability.
I’m going to take a crack at outlining some of the information I found, but I’ll shamefully pawn the final decision on to my fine, fine readers.
There are four major components of a CD that can suffer from degradation and thereby loss of data. The first is the organic dye that actually holds the 0’s and 1’s. Besides its natural degradation over long periods of time, this dye is mostly affected by UV (sunlight) and heat.
The second component is the polycarbonate layer. This is the clear material that makes up most of the CD. This layer can also degrade over time, becoming less and less transparent. Again, UV and heat can speed up this process, as well as acid from your hands.
The third component is the reflective layer. The best material for this layer is gold, but that adds a lot of cost. Sony sells a gold disk that they claim has a lifespan of 100-200 years. Silver or silver alloys can also be used, but they will corrode due to sulfur dioxide, i.e., air pollution. The key is keeping this layer sufficiently sealed to avoid corrosion.
The last component is the side where the label resides. This side suffers from two problems. The first is that a scratch on this side will damage the reflective layer. The second is that the glue from a paper label can corrode the disc.
So those were all reasons why a CD would degrade over the years. And hopefully you derived some tips on how to avoid, or at least slow down, the degradation. Supposedly pressed CDs, i.e., pre-recorded CDs, are better sealed, have better label glue, better reflective layers, etc., and will last longer. I could find no clear answers or guesses as to how much longer. Also, most of the vendors sell higher-end recordable CDs that claim more resistance to degradation, but again, I couldn’t find a study that conclusively proved they were better. I did find plenty of anecdotal information from users that cheaper CDs were less reliable.
It seem generally accepted that the lifespan of a CD-RW is less than that of a CD-R. (Please ignore the fact that I’m showing “-“ instead of “+”. I’m using “-“ in a generic sense. I could find no evidence that there was a lifespan difference in the competing “plus” and “minus” technologies.) A CD-RW can be written about 1000 times. Each media write breaks down the dye layer, so it seems to make sense that a CD-RW written 999 times would probably have a very short shelf life.
I saw one claim repeated several times, so therefore it must be true: The CD technology (not necessarily found the junk you might by for $0.10) will allow a CD-R to last for 50-200 years. And a CD-RW will last for 20-100 years. Wow.
This got me thinking about what my grandchildren would do if they were given a CD in 50 years. Would they even recognize it? If they did, would they have a CD player that could read it? I would certainly recognize an 8 ½” floppy disk, but I have long since lost any ability to read them. Heck, I’ve got CDs that currently won’t play in a CD player just a few years old. At the rate of technology change, I have trouble envisioning reliably reading CDs in just 10 years.
Anyway, I hope you suffered through this random rambling of half-truths and came to your own conclusion. My conclusion is that I’ll probably start buying more expensive CDs, and I’ll start storing them in more environmentally friendly conditions. And I’ll certainly keep two copies of everything. And I expect in a few years I’ll copy everything I still care about to HD-DVD or Blue Ray DVD, depending on who wins the war.
Good luck, and happy burning!
TT
August 5th, 2006 at 9:25 am
Thank you for your work on this subject. I found your information refreshing and informative. It is nice to see someone doing some actual research on this topic and presenting information instead of just saying “the problem is your cd or dvd”.
Thanks for the education.
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:33 am
> I’m using “-“ in a generic sense. I could find no evidence that there was a lifespan difference in the competing “plus” and “minus” technologies.)
Doesn’t that only apply to DVDs? CDs don’t have + and - AFAIK.
October 24th, 2006 at 6:16 am
Olaf, of course you’re right. There are no + CDs. Most of my comments applied to both CD and DVD. Sorry about that.
TT
March 7th, 2007 at 8:05 am
I think the answer on lifespans can be found at http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/carefordisc/. This document was written by the National Institute of Standards and Technology to help librarians with an appropriate archival strategy for digital storage (ie, how often to refresh, etc).
Now maybe someone can help me with my problem: how in the world can I get the equivalent of a Recycle Bin (ie, restore accidentally deleted files) in an NAS device, without having to do backups every 30 minutes.
Thanks
Ion
March 12th, 2007 at 6:33 am
Ion, thanks for the lifespan information.
As far as the Recycle Bin on NAS, good question. I’m not aware of a way. But I think one of the other Storage Advisors may have contacted you? Let me know if you still need an answer.
TT
May 14th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Tom, unfortunately, still no solution for adding a ‘recycle bin’ facility to my NAS device. Surely, someone must have written a utility for intercepting a Delete command and saving a copy of the file somewhere. Or is there a registry tweak that could do the same thing? Any idea before I throw out the Iomega Storcentre? Many thanks. Ion
May 18th, 2007 at 3:20 am
Ion,
Joe Disher, fellow blogger, had some advice:
There’s not really any feature in older Windows clients that does this that I know of. Vista, however, has added a new “Network Tab” to it’s recycle bin properties that allow you to extend your local protection (one client at a time) of network-based files. There may be a way to hack an XP box to allow for the same functionality - but I’m not aware of it.
You can of course use frequently run snapshots that serve as a pseudo recycle bin, but not all NAS devices support snapshots. Could possibly use Microsoft’s VSS (shadowcopy), but I’m not sure what flavor of Windows the Storcentre uses.
I hope that helps.
TT
May 18th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
Thanks for the tip on Vista. Also, recently learned that Buffalo Linkstation NAS supposedly has an option for enabling a ‘recycle bin’ facility.
Thanks
Ion
August 13th, 2007 at 11:22 am
“Heck, I’ve got CDs that currently won’t play in a CD player just a few years old.” Tom, Why is this? I assume you’re refering to new factory CDs that won’t play on old players? I haven’t heard about the technology changing. I’m finding the majority of my CDs burned in the late 1990’s are full of skips and pops and are unsalvagable using audio software. We’re talking about 100’s of songs that have by now been reduced to MP3s on my hardrives. These are discs that have never left the house and at least one never played. I can’t believe my cassette tapes are going to outlast my Cds! Nero has/had a CD drive and data analysis application that tells me my skipping Cds have millions of errors usually clustered toward the outside edge of the disk. This has got to be dye degradation and we’ve been hosed.
August 13th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Richard, I admit I have no idea why some of these CDs won’t play in older players, but my assumption is that it’s a problem with the player and not the CD. Perhaps heads getting out of alignment or whatever.
But it’s pretty much become a non-issue for me. I still buy a lot of CDs, but I play them exactly once and then permanently put them away. Everyone in my house has some form of MP3 player that they carry around, and all our cars are wired for direct MP3 player connect, i.e., no FM broadcast nonsense. Plus, I have a PC connected optically to my AV receiver, so I never have to touch a CD once I’ve ripped it. And I always rip it as both lossless (for the home system) and lossy (for the portable MP3 player), so I’m not missing out on quality and I’m protected against technology changes that may require a new lossy format someday.
You’ve got me curious. I need to pull out some of my old data backups and see how readable they are.
Thanks for reading.
TT